Gathering Evidence and Settling Disputes Outside The Courtroom

Attorney, Marco Fava, discusses the essentials of filing a petition in family court, the importance of detailed documentation, and the value of settling disputes outside the courtroom. Discover practical advice on preparing for litigation, gathering evidence, and maintaining composure during court appearances. 

Key Takeaways:

• The complexities of modifying custody orders
• Gathering essential evidence for court (emails, text messages and report courts) 
• Courtroom behavior: building credibility and the art of composure 
• Understanding different custody types 

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Transcript

Mike: 0:02

This is the brief. I'm sharing lessons from years in the courtroom, representing parents and couples on custody battles, co parenting, mental health, finances, and more. After 20 years as an attorney, I'm also bringing true war stories from the courtroom to empower you with solid and straightforward advice. I want to help you become a better partner and parent and be here any time when you need it the most. Hello everyone and thanks for joining into this week's episode of the brief with my cater. This week's episode is going to be very interested for those that are contemplating or just started any type of litigation. So, you know, if you have a partner or a spouse and filing in Supreme Court for a divorce, or if you're just a partner or a parent looking to file in family court, then this week's guest is the person for you. Our guest this week is attorney and litigator, Marco Fava, who's licensed in New York and New Jersey. I've personally seen Marco in action and let me tell you. When I have a case against him, I dot my I's and cross my T's. So let's get into it. Let's introduce Marco Fava. Marco, thanks for being here today. Hey Mike, thanks for having me today. You know, it's a pleasure to be here with you and to speak upon these topics. I've been now an attorney for 13 years, uh, licensed in New York and New Jersey. 95 percent of my practice is in matrimonial and or family law litigation. So this is the predominant area of law that I practice. So I'm glad that we're going to be able to talk about certain issues involving Either spouses or partners that are looking to separate and how to deal with their custodial issues. Marco, thank you so much. And thanks for sharing a little bit about your background. I think it's important that our audience knows your vast experience and hate to use the word, but when you use air quotes of specialty and family domestic relations, let's jump right into it. We always get calls, we get stopped in the street, we get stopped in the courthouse and somebody wants to file some paperwork. So, can you tell our listeners, what are the basics that somebody needs to put in a petition in family court or in a complaint in Supreme Court for a divorce action? For a petition and for a complaint, I mean, you're obviously going to have the name of the parties. their addresses, the relationship to the child, the name of the child or children, the date of birth. And then there's a section about explaining to the court why you want custody or visitation. And there, most people just put, because I've been the one raising the child, or I'm the better parent, or the other parent is horrible. However, in that section where most people, I think, make mistakes. Or that they lack specificity. Put as much detail as you can. This is now the time to explain to the court really why you deserve custody or visitation. This is the first impression of you to the court. So it's important to be detailed and I don't know if you agree with that, but I think that's something that I always see lacking in petitions or complaints.

Marco: 3:36

You're spot on and many times, you know, when I speak to clients in consultation or in the courthouse and they say, well, I've been the primary caretaker. I know what you mean when they say that. And most attorneys wouldn't know what they lack the specifics, you know, and can you give some examples of what people should include to help demonstrate that they've been the primary caretaker?

Mike: 4:04

I mean, I would put specific events. I mean, what I usually tell people is talk about, you know, certain age groups. So from. Let's say zero to one. What was the routine for that child or children who prepared the meals? You know, talk about who prepared the meals, who took that child for their six month checkup for their vaccine shots, who watched over them when they were sick, who baited them, and then I would even put what the other spouse. was doing or partner. So for example, such as if that partner came home from work and said and went to sleep, I would put that I woke up with the child, depending on who the parent is to do the midnight feeding the middle of the night feedings. Those are the specifics I'm talking about. If you have great school Children, then talk about parent teacher conferences, routines of people who the person who does homework with them. Things of that nature. Be

Marco: 5:10

specific. You raise some good examples. For example, when children are sick. And we all know if you have young children, there's always sniffles, there's always a cough, there's always I just had to go pick up mine at school today. Exactly. We ran a little behind schedule. But I tell them, for example, who picks them up if you get a call that they're sick from school? Who takes them to the pediatrician? Or even at nighttime, you know, when, uh, they need their medicine or they're not feeling well, who wakes up in the middle of the night? My experience is I don't believe that a parent intentionally leaves it out. It's my experience that they just don't recognize how important it is. For the court to hear that I'm the parent that misses work or skips work when the child is sick. I'm the parent that picks them up when, uh, they have to leave school early. I'm the parent that goes to the parent teacher conference, you know, all these little actions, while they may seem basic, it's important that the judge hears what you're saying. what literally they've been doing. And one thing I didn't consider, and you just made point to is what you said. Well, while you're doing all this, what is the other parent doing? And he said, you know, I wake up while the other parent is sleeping. So, so, you know, that's a very good tip that you just gave. So, so remember to our listeners, always focus on clearly what you've been doing and the sacrifices you've been doing, but simultaneously point out what the other parent is doing. Has not been doing while you're taking the responsibilities of the primary caretaker.

Mike: 6:48

I'll give a perfect example. I just had that in a case where, and I agree with you. I don't think parents leave it out on purpose. I think it's just, they don't know. Uh, but a perfect example, there was a father in this particular case coming home from work and the mother would at least ask if he had any, Could do the feedings when he came home from work because the child ate every two hours was zero to one. Uh, she would prepare a bottle and he refused. He's like, well, I was at work all day. So all he wanted to do was play with the child for, you know, about a half hour, an hour, and then watch TV and go to sleep. And the mother in this particular case. Couldn't even sleep in the bedroom. She slept on the couch because she didn't want to disturb them in the middle of the night, because the child would wake up and the first couple of times it happened, you know, he would huff and puff and get angry about it. There's an example right there

Marco: 7:40

of

Mike: 7:40

what the other parent is not

Marco: 7:41

doing. I think that there are so many things throughout the day, throughout raising the children that parents are not aware of are so important. You know, just sleeping on a couch not to disturb the other parent is very symbolic of the dedication one parent may have for rearing the child. When somebody files for a petition in family court, what type of paperwork do they file? What do you call that? Like, what should they

Mike: 8:11

do? Well, I mean, if it's an initial petition where nobody has any orders from any court for custody, then it's just called a petition for visitation and custody. Petition for custody and visitation. And if you have an order. Already regarding custody and visitation, but you feel, hey, it's time that there's a modification to it or some tweaks need to be made because of certain circumstances having happened. That's called the petition for a modification. Of an order of custody and visitation, either from the family court or from another court if you were not in New York or if you weren't supreme and not going to family.

Marco: 8:52

All right, so pretty much as parents have an understanding, this is what we're going to do. It's verbal, but there's no is not signed off by a judge. A parent goes and files their initial petition for custody and or visitation. Am I saying that correct? Yes. All right. Now, we hear the word modifying, right? Inherently, they want to change something. What is needed when you want to file a modification petition? What should a parent include in their petition for the reason for changing what's already been approved by the court?

Mike: 9:31

Well, you need to show what's called a substantial change in circumstances. And so it has to be something that wasn't occurring at the time of the initial order. So what I usually tell people, don't just come here because now you say, well, I'm the better parent now. No, you have to show what has changed since we entered into that order or the court made that order and what has changed. And there has to be a substantial change. Yeah. I think an easy example that I usually try to use is one parent, unfortunately now, perhaps becomes addicted to drugs or starts abusing alcohol. Those are reasons, and again, if you're going to come in, You need to be specific about those facts that you're alleging of why there is a change. Now I've given you an extreme one. They're not always as extreme. So even more important to be specific in the details you put in a petition.

Marco: 10:33

Yeah. You know, you raised something, I know substance abuse, you know, any mental health issues, you know, they're, they're extreme, but even then because sometimes they're deemed personal, the more details they put in, The better it is for them, it is better for them that way the judge gets a better understanding of what's really been a change.

Mike: 10:54

Oh, absolutely. I would not suggest anyone ever going to court. Well, they're using drugs or or they have mental health issues. Well, okay, let's be specific. What drugs are they using? How often? Well, what are you noticing? In the person's behavior that is concerning you, right? Don't just most people just come in and say, well, they're using drugs now. Well, okay. I don't know what that

Marco: 11:20

means or how frequently now, especially specifically here in New York now, the last few years, the legalization of marijuana, I'll hear a parent say, well, they smoke weed that end of itself. And this is important for parents to know that if one parent smokes weed that end of itself. It's legal. However, when I say, are they smoking the weed, you know, the marijuana and the presence of the child, it's like almost like cigarettes. Okay. They smoke cigarettes. Are they smoking it in front of the child? And that's where I tell them focus on

Mike: 11:52

and also how much, right? I mean, look, you can have a glass of wine with dinner or a beer, right? If you like, and that doesn't mean you're an alcoholic and now, right? But if you have too much to drink and you get in the car with the children, right? Well, now there's the real ramifications. Are they smoking to the point of impairment as well, right? So, I mean, you have to focus on the details of what it is that is causing you this concern and not because you just now hate the person for some reason.

Marco: 12:22

No, you're right. Family law, it is so different than while it's considered civil, it's so different from other, you know, contract law or civil litigation. And that sometimes I'll get a parent says, well, my friend went through this and this is what happened to them. Or, you know, I know somebody that this happened. I was like, you got to understand something. Each family, each dynamics are so different that it probably made sense for them that where it won't make sense for you. So there is not one, you know, one size fits all and family law because you just mentioned, you know, material change in circumstance could be mental health or substance abuse. A common one that I see, Marco, is, for example, you mentioned a child from zero to one, you know, the, while they're a toddler, I see now that they start first grade or kindergarten, I find that that in itself could be a material change. Would you agree with that?

Mike: 13:18

Yeah, I do. I do believe that certain times. Yeah, I think you might have been able to. Really have a more liberal access schedule when they were younger before first grade, you know, because there's not as much, but maybe, you know, you start noticing that the child needs more consistency and routine and their life instead of being shuttled back and forth. Is because certain children need that structure and I agree that can be a change and then for others, it might not be a change. And it goes back to your point of, you know, each family is different than each child and children are different. So you have to see what works for that family. Like we were just saying, perhaps 1st grade. You're starting to notice that it's too much for that child going back and forth from house to house. The grades are, you've seen they're either forgetting things or they're not able to complete assignments because it's just too much shifting back and forth. So yeah, that could be the term of material change at times.

Marco: 14:20

Got it. And we could talk about this a little, we could write books and papers about, uh, this particular issue, but I wanted to move along. So once a parent files the proper petition, you know, modification or general petition, you know, what type of documents, and I refer to documents evidence, should somebody have to prove their point just in case it's disputed?

Mike: 14:45

Oh, I think you try to keep as much as. You can, I think one of the first things you do, uh, when you think you're going to be entering this legal field, the legal realm, by either filing a petition or complaint, start writing in a notebook or on your iPad or whatever. And, you know, start, like I said, zero to one, one to two, seeing who did what for the child. But I would also start looking back at emails. Or text messages between the parties showing that you try to communicate with them when the child was sick or inviting them, Hey, tonight's parent teacher night, will you be leaving work early to come and speak with the teachers, even if they don't respond. I think that's important to have emails, pictures, mothers and father's day cards. So many things I would have documents upon documents, and that's important to start gathering. Even before you file, I think so that you're not, you know, looking for everything after the filing, it should be

Marco: 15:50

done pre filing. That's a good point. There's many times where clients say, well, I'll get it. And I was like, okay, go and get it. And you know, there's just a hard time and you make some good points nowadays. Everyone uses text message or email showing your effort to communicate is just as good. Because courts generally like equal co parenting, you know, it's in the best interest of the child. And I find that if a parent outreaches, you know, through text, email, or some other mode to show, Hey, I've been trying to tell the other parent about what's going on, that helps demonstrate you're acting in good faith. Emails, the pictures, I say, you know, those milestone events, the birthdays or the graduations, you know, any religious ceremonies, I think it helps point to paint a total picture before the court. And these are things that people have in their possession. They're just not aware of how valuable they could be.

Mike: 16:50

And I think another thing that's invaluable, I mean, report cards, medical records. And let's say that there's already an order and you're looking to change custody, and let's say you're not the custodial parent and you only have certain weekends. What I usually tell those clients, okay, let's try to break down, get the evidence that you already have in your possession of, if you're helping your child study on the weekends you have them and they have a test on Monday, let's look at those grades versus the one when they're with the other parent. And let's even break it down. So, and

Marco: 17:23

these are things that are at your disposal. Mark, one time in a case I had was, was fairly recent where a parent wanted, you know, equal time one week with each parent. What we actually did is we went to the school records, their attendance, and we were able to coincide whenever the child was with one parent, the not absences, but the frequent latenesses. And then if you literally put a calendar of the week that the child was with one particular parent and the lateness, it coincided. And then the following week, when the child was with the other parent. on time, no, uh, no lateness. We brought that to the court and that was a reason that the court decided that we're not punishing you. We just need to modify the access schedule. That way the child is not frequently late. And there you

Mike (THIS IS MARCO): 18:19

go. There's another, yeah, attendance records. I mean, these are all things. that people say, well, I don't know what evidence I have. It's right there in front of you. It's part, it's your everyday life, things that you just do normally that you don't think about unless you're starting to go through the legal process.

Mike: 18:38

When we hear the word evidence, you know, and as we know in family court evidence, we just can't as attorneys, we can't go demand to you know, in exchange of documents, it's always easier. When the litigant or your client brings it into court and we share it, sometimes what I do when I have the pictures or the text messages, I actually attach it as an exhibit to show on a hypothetical where one parent doesn't communicate. Or doesn't respond in a timely manner. I've actually attached emails and text messages of my client parent reaching out to the other person and say they either they don't respond or they don't respond timely. And I think that putting that in there is very valuable. And it's just a demonstrative effect. Because the other parent who will be the respondent, how do you justify that before the court? I think that's very important. And number two, not only does it enhance your petition, but it tells the court, you don't have to believe me. I have documents to back up what I'm telling you.

Marco: 19:48

Well said. One of the difficulties that I find in family court, be it if it's a family offense or a custody or a visitation, many times, There are no witnesses. It's either the parents, the child, or if there's witnesses. Sometimes it's the relatives of each parent. So credibility is huge, you know, and that's why the a picture, the birthday card, you know, the mother's day, father's day card, these type of things are so important to help show involvement and sentiment between the child and the parents. And more importantly, how the parents communicate, you know, so folks, a tip from this is, you know, evidence doesn't come out screaming at you. It's everything you have in normal communication, right? It's not

Mike: 20:34

this smoke and gun that you're looking for. It's your everyday life. Just things that you do when you start parsing out who is actually doing them. And you don't always have to bash the other parents. It's not always about bashing. It's just really getting to the facts

Marco: 20:52

of who's doing what in reality. It's funny you say about bashing. When I meet with my clients, I always tell them the minute you step into that courthouse from the court officers to the security while you're in the waiting room waiting for a case to be called. And as soon as you walk into. The courtroom, you're being assessed and we all have it implicit bias. Absolutely. I tell the client control your emotions. Let's stay focused. But I know certain judges, they like it when the parents bicker in court because it helps them understand what's going on. And I always tell clients don't get dated. If they say something, that's the worst thing. And they say, but they're lying. That's not true. It didn't happen that way. Allow me to do that. Hold your cool because I tell them, think about it. Person, you know, the parent respondent says something that's not true. You get triggered and got baited and you do an outburst. The judge is going to see that is very reactionary. My approach is stay calm, whisper in my ear. You know, we, we shut off the microphone. And then allow me to answer and what we do instead of being baited, we just show how he's misleading the court or how they said something that's not accurate. So sometimes our disposition and the way parents act in court could be very important because the judge ultimately is going to decide if there's a dispute over custody or visitation.

Mike: 22:28

I couldn't agree more and, and especially if you're a person that gets triggered easily by the other person because of just who they are and what they've done to you, they may do that as a PLO to try to get you to react. So it's important to keep your cool when you're in there because like you said, it gives the judge an insight into who people are and can they maintain their cool when they're under this microscope. I've seen

Marco: 22:55

clients lose access. Which is known as visitation. I've lost cases where we were going the right way and a client loses their cool. And the judge says, what type of outburst is that? You know, if they're acting that way in front of me, how are they acting in front of the child? And you can't answer it. So, you know, I mean, there's certain so much we could do as attorneys. We prep them up, we help them, we, we guide them, but you know, the parents are probably the most important evidence because credibility is going to be paramount when the judge is deciding these disputed issues.

Mike: 23:33

Absolutely. I can't, I can't agree more. I mean, I just had a case the other day where, you know, uh, was making strides for the client and we were getting closer and closer to a visit. And then she just had an outburst in the middle of the courtroom where they had to remove her. And instead of what we were working to accomplish being the focus of the appearance, all of a sudden it just went to her act. And not only did the judge not grant anything,

Marco: 24:04

she ended the conference right then and there. And Marco, I said earlier, you're, I've seen you in the courtroom, you're great on your feet, but there's just certain things that are nearly impossible to recover from. And when your client gets thrown out of a courtroom, that, that would be very difficult to, because, you know, judges have memories. They see, they hear, parents hold your call and don't get baited. If the other parent knows how to press your buttons.

Mike: 24:28

100 percent I couldn't agree more.

Marco: 24:31

I want to touch on another important topic. Obviously we discussed what you need when you file. You know, and then obviously we've also spoken about what type of documents during the case, but ultimately, and this is a statistical fact, most cases settle. People hear about trials and fact finding and hearing, but statistically cases settled and courts encouraged settlement. And I'm, I'm a proponent. Of parents settling because my belief is if you settle, you're guaranteed to get something that you want as opposed to allowing a stranger decide what you get.

Mike: 25:11

I agree. I think 90 to 95% of the cases settle. And you're not leaving it up to a third party. I mean, look, if you're going to leave it up to the court, they're going to try to make the most basic of schedule because they don't know your family. They don't know the intimate details. For example, let's say that I celebrate Christmas. So it's very big for Italians to have Christmas Eve. And let's say that my kids love going every year to my family's house, and now to their mother's, Christmas is very big. So maybe if we can negotiate, we can say, every year I'll have Christmas Eve, every year she'll have Christmas Day. If you're leaving it to a judge, they're just going to alternate it. Or maybe you can't get off at certain periods. And so the court is just going to alternate those weeks where you're going to have to figure out what to do. So you're always better off coming up with a schedule and certain parameters

Marco: 26:12

that work for everyone. You're right. And you mentioned, uh, for example, in the town, Christmas Eve, you know, by the way, uh, how many fishes you cook on Christmas Eve, Marco? Uh, I think we're up to 10 now. But also particularly here in Yonkers, you know, where, where we practice a lot. Three Kings Day. Is a huge day where, you know, uh, more recently, you know, parents say, hold on a second on three Kings day, you know, I want my child with me. And again, you know, I could just talk from personal experience. Courts are not going to get involved in that. If you go to a trial and they have to decide, however, you can negotiate it. If you're with. An attorney trying to go, you know, Christmas Eve, Christmas day, or all the other holidays, obviously for examples, we're referring to Christmas, but there's Thanksgiving, Easter break and stuff. And I'm putting my grin on my face right now. When we talk about settlements, one of the most difficult conversations I always have, and this could go be the F I'm representing the custodial parent, where for those listing custodial is where the child lives or the non custodial is the difference of joint custody. Or sole custody. Can you explain what that means when they hear that, you know, parents shall have joint custody or one parent shall have sole custody. What does that mean? Well, it comes down

Mike: 27:33

to, if we're talking about legal, comes down to major decisions, not your everyday decisions. You know, there'll be, if you're not doing 50 50, there'll be a residential. Then there is so legal or joint legal it, right. Both of them are regarding major decisions. And if you can both have discussions and be open about these decisions, well then maybe joint works. Right. If another parent hasn't been involved, you know, then maybe we need to start considering the, the, the soul, but it, right. It goes to major

Marco: 28:08

decisions. Don't you agree? You're right. And what I define, well, actually the courts define ours, health, education and general welfare. Yeah. And I tell parents that there aren't too many major decisions. Right. Schooling, the general consensus is the school district where they live is the controlling factor. Correct. I've seen where another parent may live in a more favorable school district. Well, here's, well, parents, here's what you do. Work it out on paper and settle the case. The judge is not going to decide that the judge is going to take a fastball down the middle child goes to the school where they live. Right. And if you do

Mike: 28:53

want the child to go to your school. Well, then you better be prepared to have experts come in and testify, spending all this money when you both can sit down and have a discussion, right? Another example would be major tutoring, you know, the child need tutoring that we have to put out for. Those are your major decisions, what they're going to eat or wear. That's going to be made by the parent who they're with that day.

Marco: 29:17

So what are we really arguing over? No, no, you're absolutely right. I almost wish the New York state legislator actually. Had a better word for joint legal and sole custody, because I think that when they see it on paper, they automatically assume something else where I've had parents say. I want to be an equal parent, you know, joint custody. And I have to explain to them that's just for decisions. And you do have a right, you know, to, you know, do input. And I give them examples when it comes to medical for non emergency, you know, braces, for example, you know, one parent, you know, they go to the dentist, orthodontist, they need braces. You just can't say no. For the sake of saying, no, you're entitled. Hey, listen, I don't want, I'm not sure if they need it. You know, let's go get a second opinion. That's a fair request, but usually when I, you know, have this conversation with them, say, think of, and I take the age of the child, right? They're five years old or 10 years old or stuff. I was like, listen, in the last 10 years. What major decisions revolving education or or medical? Have you guys ever disagreed on? Yeah,

Mike: 30:30

that's very true. And again, and even let's say that you did not get joint legal for the moment. Let's say you were in a case and you only receive the other side got so legal. And again, doesn't only give them carte blanche, you're still entitled to notice if you still disagree with something that they're doing, right, you can still go to court if you feel that it's something that shouldn't happen. So it doesn't mean that you're cut out to altogether. You do still have rights. In those circumstances, don't you agree?

Marco: 31:03

Yeah, Marco, very good point. A lot of times when I represent the non custodial and what I always try to do is a carve out in there where I say, barring a major emergency, particularly with medical, you know, if they agree, that's great, but I always try to put language in the final order that father shall have 10 days, you know, or mom, whoever the non custodial is, shall have 10 days, which is almost two weeks. You know, to go file in court if they disagree with the decision. And I tell clients, you just can't go to court and file that. You just, you gotta have a basis for it. You know, if it's a medical decision, go get a second medical opinion and say, Oh, listen, I'm using the dentist. For example, an orthodontist said it's not necessary. So I always try to give a carve out to make a, uh, the non custodial parent still feel part of that process.

Mike: 31:57

And what I always tell clients to, you know, look, the court's not a doctor, the court's not a teacher. So unless the professional involved is just off their rocker, not much of a quack court, most likely is going to follow the professional's advice. You know, they're not tutors. They're not doctors. They don't know if the child needs braces. There's just here hearing what everyone has to say to them. And they're just trying to come up with a decision. But they're not going to be the ones making the medical

Marco: 32:25

call. You're absolutely correct. Because the standard is the best interest of the child standard. And, and if, if the orthodontist says the child has an overbite and needs, or, you know, whatever the condition is, that's what the judge is going to order, go get the braces, right? Another thing that I always put, and I put it in all orders, be it if it's joint custody or legal, that the noncustodial has access to the To all medical and educational records. And I always throw in and allow to speak to any service provider for the children.

Mike: 32:57

I agree. Those are in my orders as well. Again, unless there's something really boring that, I mean, that should be standard that, right. You're still a parent. You still should be able to know what's going on at your child's school, you know, medical provider, tutors. extracurricular because you should be involved and you should have, you should be able to know those things, you know, unless the circumstances really don't permit it. But for the most part, yeah, I agree. 96 percent of the order should have that in there.

Marco: 33:27

And I just know, and obviously in Westchester, you know, we have three family courts still under the Westchester County Family Court, you know, three locations. And I know all the judges, Prefer that both parents are part of their life and settled case law. And the bet, you know, the more proactive both parents are on the child's life. Statistics say the child is better having involvement with both. And, you know, these orders, they're a groundwork. I always say we could put all the language in and there to try to make it equitable, making sure that both parents have a say in the child's upbringing.

Mike: 34:03

Yeah.

Marco: 34:04

But I always say, Okay. Both parents have to want to make it work.

Mike: 34:08

I agree. My thing to the parties usually is this thing. Look, if you guys can get along after this and be cordial with each other, because there's going to be circumstances that, you know, you may need something from that parent because a wedding or something comes up and vice versa, you know, be cordial with that other parent. You know, you guys can change everything. Disagreement. Is the rule book. Think of it as the rule book that if you both can't agree, you can flip to the section and say, okay, we can't agree this time. Here's what happens now. It's the, you have to be right. You have to be flexible with each other because life happens.

Marco: 34:42

You know, and that's where, and again, another important provision I always put on my orders that, you know, the parties may agree on other visitation as agreed upon, as long as it's in writing. So that way it gives them that, that, that flexibility.

Mike: 34:55

Absolutely. I agree.

Marco: 34:57

We could talk about this even much more, but, uh, I know we're winding down. We're a little over. If anyone has any questions about what they said, how do they find you?

Mike: 35:07

It's, uh, either my phone or an email. My phone number is 9 1 4 6 3 0 0 2 0 1. Or my email Marco dot Fava F A V a. At fatherlaw. net,

Marco: 35:24

Marco, thank you for sharing that. And folks, if you call up Marco, please mention you, you, you heard him on the brief. You know, before we wrap up, I just want to take a couple of key takeaways. Number one, put as much information in the petition. Don't just say I'm the primary caretaker. Number two, during the court case and even before filing, get all the documents and have them in hand. Be it report cards, progress notes, certificates of achievement, medical records, holiday cards. The more information and documents you have, the better off your case would be. And then number three is always look to settle, even if it doesn't sound good initially, you always want to know. And you could ask any practicing attorney and matrimonial family law. When you settle, you may not get everything you want, but you could usually get something that you want and you could come to a middle ground. Don't have a stranger who will be the judge, make the decision for you. Marco, any other tips you could

Mike: 36:29

give? Those are it. And you know, specificity, be detailed, detailed, and detailed. That's really what it comes down to, details.

Marco: 36:38

Marco, thank you so much, our audience thanks you, and I'm sure I'll be seeing you in the courtroom very soon. Thanks for taking time. Thank you for having me,

Mike: 36:46

Mike, and thank you to the audience for listening. And, uh, I definitely see you

Marco: 36:50

soon. We'll definitely invite you back on a different topic in the near future. I appreciate that. You have a great day. Thank you. Thanks for listening. This is Mike Kater, and I'll help you and your family navigate custody disputes or divorce matters with With your best interest first, you can book a free consultation with me and learn more by following me on Instagram at Mike J cater. I've also included a link in today's show notes, tune in for our next episode of the brief coming next week.