The Brief

From Yelling to Healing: Raising Confident Kids and Breaking Generational Cycles

Mike Khader Season 2 Episode 3

Learn how to handle common parenting challenges like yelling, silent treatment, and gaming addiction, and get actionable advice for building stronger family relationships in the digital age. 

Jasmine Ahluwalia, Parenting Educator and Creator of Colors of Parenting, shares how we can raise emotionally healthy children.  

Key Takeaways: 

  • How to recognize and break negative parenting cycles through “re-parenting”
  • The impact of yelling and silent treatment, and what to do instead
  • Strategies for addressing children’s gaming addiction and screen time
  • The importance of allowing children to express emotions and grow at their own pace
  • Resources for parents: where to find support, education, and community

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Mike:

This is the brief. I'm sharing lessons from years in the courtroom representing parents and couples on custody battles, co-parenting, mental health, finances, and more. After 20 years as an attorney, I'm also bringing true law stories from the courtroom to empower you with solid and straightforward advice. I wanna help you become a better partner and parent and be here any time when you need it the most. I. Hello everyone, and thanks for tuning into this week's episode of The Brief. This week's episode is gonna have some real hands-on parenting tips and practical advice. Our guest is Jasmine Alia. She's a parent educator and a parent of two young boys. She will be able to talk about many of the issues that we deal with today. When parents have anxiety, they feel stressed when they feel like. They're yelling at their children too much or even when they give their children silent treatment. We'll also discuss the dangers of too much gaming. So without further ado, let's introduce our guest. Jasmine. Hello everyone. This week's guest is so amazing because she does what we all deal with. Every day it's being a parent, being in a relationship, and we all know that there is no yellow playbook on how to be a parent in today's modern age and even the difficulties of being in a relationship. Today's guest is Jasmine Ali Walla. She's the voice behind the colors of parenting, a social media profile that you could find on Instagram. She's a parent educator. She's a parent of her own two toddlers and is here to give us some practical advice and tips when it comes to parenting and relationships. Jasmine, thanks for being here and making time for the brief and our guests.

Jasmine:

Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure. It's a privilege. I would say thank you for that.

Mike:

Thanks so much. We live in such a complex and you know, difficult society, and I always say the yellow playbook. I remember when, when I used to go to Barnes and Noble or any other bookstore, they used to have these thick yellow books, right? And whatever the topic was, right? You know, Microsoft for Dummies or Playing Sports for Dummies and, and all these little rule books. But in today's universe, in the way, there's been societal shifts. There is really no playbook on being a parent in today's day and age, and even with relationships. What's your take on that for a young family or a parent in a relationship with constant struggles and stress?

Jasmine:

See, I would say it's very common nowadays for parents to feel more stressed, and the reason for that is maybe it might be social media or maybe more awareness now as to how a child's brain works. What are the side effects of, it could be yelling or getting angrier them hitting. So I would say that does does cause little pressure and stress on the parents as compared to what it was in our time, our parents. I think that time you to be more carefree. But now I think because of so much research into parenting, so much research into how children should behave, what is normal for this age group, what is not normal for this age group. It does get a little bit stressful, but there are ways around it. It is not that you have to follow the rule. You can definitely make your own rules. Stay happy, stay peaceful. I believe in this mantra is that if you stay calm as a parent, it'll be easy for you to raise calm children. And I've learned that the hard way myself.

Mike:

So you used the word stress and in today's society, no matter where you live, no matter what you do. I'm a firm believer that life is stressful and it's, it depends on how you handle it. Does it manifest to something greater? You know, in your experience for a parent in a relationship or stressful relationship also, is there any indicators of what could be the normal stress of life? Mm-hmm. Or the stress of, hold on, this is not the normal stress, the, you know, I need some help. I need some intervention.

Jasmine:

Yeah, definitely. So I won't term it as red flags, but yes. Some flags that could be as indicators or markers where you feel that yes, this might not be the right parenting. Something that can be changed. And this is from my own experience. When I had my second child, I used to get very anxious, very stressed as how am I gonna handle both the boys? How am I going to do this? How am I going that? I could feel that change, and maybe I was not the parent that I had thought before my children were born that I would like to be. The biggest indicator that you would feel is you are not the parent you have thought you would be or you want your children to have. That is the first thing that would come to your mind, and when that comes to your mind, you need to understand there is something that needs to be changed. And it is not the child that needs to be changed. It is us that have to be changed. The child would behave like a child. That's what he's supposed to do. We as parents need to be behave, I would say like parents and not like arguing with the child or getting angry. I know it's very difficult, but again, you just work little bit on yourself, try to reparent yourself. It should be easy.

Mike:

Bravo for that answer. Where? You know, you, you said a lot of insightful stuff, but you can't get mad at a child for being a child because that's exactly what they do, you know? Yes. They make a mess. They fall, they spill, they're, you know, particularly at different ages, they challenge their parents or try to test the limits. You know, me, myself, I have some pre-teens and teenagers, so they're constantly testing the limits of literally what, of what they could get away with. Yeah. And I used to go to Google and I say. How do I deal with a, a child that's constantly challenging and it's part of growing up as a part of young adolescents and becoming a young adult, and I put it in simple terms. How much can I get away with? It's a fine balance with a lot of gray area. Yeah. So, so I, I thank you for pointing that out. and you said something else that's interesting. When you find yourself with the vision of parenting that you had, when you're not fulfilling that vision, that's also a sign. You know, it, it's very simple, but sometimes, you know, I particularly, well, I remember my experience where it's like, hold on a second. This is not what I envisioned, this is not what I thought it would be. Or even many of my clients, you know, when I'm taking, you know, when we're dealing in divorces or family court or custody. This is not what I thought parenting or marriage would be. I was hoping for, you know, all, you know, grandeur and green pastures and rainbows and unicorns. So thanks for pointing that out. You mentioned a term, you know, in your answer called re-parenting. Let's, let's talk about that. What is re-parenting and, and, and how can a parent implement it?

Jasmine:

Reparenting, I would say, for me and in simple terms, is basically giving ourselves. What we would have not got as when we were children. Things like maybe permission to make mistakes, things like maybe patience, empathy, re-parenting is basically shifting your focus more towards how a child is going to react in that situation rather than how I am going to react. Because what I believe, and I'm a firm believer of this, and I would say it's quite accurate. When we respond to a situation, if you're getting angry on your child, it is not that child. It is something that's happening in the background that might trigger you. For example, you are working, you have a meeting with your boss, your child comes in because, and, and you are talking to your boss more conscious about how my boss is going to take it. It's not the child's fault. It is you and a lot of things that going in the background. Maybe you are tired, maybe you're not focused. So re-parenting according to me, is to shift my focus, not on my child's behavior, but on how I need to re-parent myself basically. Again, not pass on what happened to me in the childhood. There are a lot of people in their childhood, they say that we were yelled on. Our parents used to hit us also, but we are fine somewhere. I would feel they are not fine. There is something that is still there that shouldn't be reparenting for me, is basically to have a safe place for your child and to break the habit, the generational habit of maybe spanking or yelling that should have not been done. So it's simple terms that would, I would say is reparenting,

Mike:

it's very profound. It's almost like, you know, when a parent has. You know, un unhealed trauma or something that hasn't been addressed. Mm-hmm. And it becomes form when something's been in you for so long, you learn how to live with it. Because you learned how to live with trauma doesn't necessarily mean you healed from it or learn from it.

Jasmine:

Yeah. And you don't need to pass it on to the next generation. Very beautiful quote that I read somewhere, is that you're not raising children, you are raising the next generation. So you have to be very mindful. And it's a very different generation as to what it was when we were there with social media, so many other things. So, much awareness. Now, the children, they know their rights that we may just maybe call the police if you say something to us. Our time was so different. So we have to change. We have to reparent to survive.

Mike:

You are absolutely right guys. I just had a conversation a week, week and a half ago with some friends of mine and they were a combination of family court, lawyers and, you know, all parents. And in our generation, you know, spanking, hitting and, corporal punishment. It was normal. That's how you raise your kids. Correct. And now unfortunately, parents are, constrained. How do you discipline, your child and the unofficial rule is no closed fist, no belts, no hanger, you know? Yeah. And, and let's be clear, child abuse does happen. What tips can you give or suggestions where a child needs to be disciplined that doesn't raise to corporate punishment or calling the cops?

Jasmine:

Yes. I would say for that first you need to understand that again, a child is gonna behave as for what a child has to behave. They might talk back to you, they might cry, scream, do all sorts of things. because obviously the brain's still not developed. It's still developing. They cannot think the pros and cons, the way our adults can think. So always keep this in mind that a child is going to behave like a child and we have to behave like adults. If we behave like a child, it's not gonna work. Then it would be more cross rather than a child opening up to you. Secondly, never suppress their feelings. Let them open up. They wanna cry on something, let them cry. I've heard so many times parents saying, especially to boys. Boys don't cry. That makes you weak. That's not true. Crying doesn't make anyone weak. You are just shutting down his emotions and that is how he's going to be raised going forward, which might then, yes, when he's gonna have kids or even seeing his wife crying. Crying makes you weak. Don't cry. Because that is how he's been brought up. So I would say maybe change all this. Focus on your child. Focus on your child's behavior. Don't compare your child with others. Everyone has a different way of growing, different way of working, so just leave your child and let him grow. Just like a flower. The more he gets natural sunlight and everything, he's, the more he's gonna grow. Obviously put more water. You keep giving more soil, more food. Eventually he, it's gonna die. So let him grow at its own pace. That is what I like, like to see.

Mike:

Jasmine, that is such a beautiful analogy, you know, about growing like a flower and, and, and I could tell you sometimes I, even as an adult parent who, who I'm going through my own mourning, sometimes a good cry is probably the best medicine. Yeah. And many times, like with children, particularly while they're trying to define themselves and learn who they are, they can't express that feeling. And one suggestion I always give is just let it out. Or I tell all my children. Tell me it's okay. You. I'm not gonna get mad and I love you regardless. And unfortunately, sometimes children need to hear that affirmation before they do open up. Yes. And then I think the second key is once they're done, hug them and remind them how much you love them.

Jasmine:

Agree, yes. Tell them no matter what they do, you are always there for them and it's better for them to open up to you rather than to open up to the world outside, which. I'm not sure how good or how cruel that world is going to be to them, but it's better if they could share it with you because you are still their safe place. Pause and breathe. Something for parents to do when they are stressed or triggered. Just pause and breathe. Yes.

Mike:

I try to do meditation and work out in the morning, and what I recognize is with the meditation, you know, it helps with the breathing exercise because breath, you know, just. Fresh air in through the know who's out through the mouth and that's self-regulating. I find that it grounds me to have a good and productive day and also, you know, also just working out cardiovascular, some weightlifting, you know, that's my mechanism to use in the morning to have a productive day and self-regulate. And I think that each parent should find their own mechanism.

Jasmine:

Yes, there is a very small thing that they say you should do. You know, if you're getting triggered. Or if you are about to get angry, not only on your child, on anyone. Two things that works for me and I'm trying to do it now, is pause and don't react that time. Maybe just pause for two seconds and then you see the way you react is going to change. Second, maybe that is what they say for children. Instead of yelling, just talk in a whisper. They listen more when you talk in a whisper rather than you yell at them. So I'm trying to do that. When you feel you're going to get triggered, just start whispering, start singing, just start talking in a silly voice. And then you notice yourself, your stress level is gonna come down. And your funny part, they would say, oh, my parents are being funny. I'm, I'm doing something not good. But see, they're funny. That's gonna change them.

Mike:

In your experience or reads. And anything you read, are there, is there any data about yelling, you know, is it effective? Is it more detrimental or giving the silent treatment? You know, in your experience, can you shed some insight when a parent yells at a child or even gives the, you know, the child or the partner or the other parent, the silent treatment is, is that an effective or a dis effective?

Jasmine:

So what they say, I'll start with yelling first. So what they say is yelling might give you a temporary solution. But not in the long run. The child would just get habitual because no parent who's going to yell at the first time. You might yell at the fourth or the fifth time like you're saying, please do this, please do this. Doesn't listen. And then your voice starts. Your child would get attuned to it and he'll understand. When mom raises her voice, that's the fifth time. That is when I need to listen. So yelling can only going cause you some temporary, give you temporary solutions. It definitely yes. Hinders the way they think. It hinders their nervous system again, because the, the brain, I would say, is not developed as of now. The child's brain develops still the age of 25 when he's an adult. So your yelling definitely is going to, first of all, reduce their morale, reduce their self-confidence. They must start doubting on my, on themselves as to is there a reason that. My mom or dad always yelling, am I always doing something wrong? And lastly, they might just listen to you when you yell and not when you talk in a normal voice because they get attuned to it. They know mom is going to yell after mom's saying, please pick it up. Please pick it up. But when mom raises her voice, that is mean. She's serious. And let's just start attuning to that, the, the higher pitch.

Mike:

So too much yelling. It becomes the norm. It's counter counterproductive. That's what I'm hearing. They become desensitized.

Jasmine:

And the reason just, Mike, just think about something. You are in an organization and you are talking to your boss. Would you ever yell? No, you won't because you cannot. But with your children, you'll take that liberty. You'll yell. But why do you have to yell and speak instead? Like I said, talking whispers, it is said. That, yes, if you talk in whispers, they listen to you more because they feel that this is not how my mom or dad talk something maybe, and it's a funny way to talk to them. So yelling, like I said, yes, would reduce their morale, their self-confidence, and they might start doubting themselves that, is there anything wrong? Similarly with the silent treatment, I won't lie sometimes. I used to do the silent treatment, and it's not natural, right? You are getting triggered by your child. You're like, please go. I'm not gonna talk to you. But that causes doubt in them that, oh, maybe I'm not good, and what if my mom leaves? Or what if my mom, mom goes away? Or what if my dad says he doesn't wanna talk to me because I did this? So that again, causes self-doubt in them. They say it's. The silent treatment is equal to yelling. Both shouldn't be done, but again, we as human as parents, this there is where, this is where the re-parenting comes in. We need to understand how everything works and then go forward. So I would say avoid the silent treatment. Avoid the yelling. Maybe try something else which might work for your child. For me, the whispers work, talking in whispers or talking in a silly voice. Pause and breathe. And maybe just before you respond or just don't react, just let your brain thumb down because any situation, Mike, you are very angry at your boss. You still won't yell at your boss. Or in fact, your elders, you'll never yell or, um, someone walking on the street, you are angry. You'll never yell, but you take the liberty to yell at your children because they're little. They cannot say anything and you feel, oh, and that's human nature. Anyone you can suppress, you try to suppress that person. And in our case, it's mostly our children.

Mike:

Very profound. And while you're reading it, I'm dissecting and understanding they sound diametrically opposing, right? Yelling, which is loud. And then silent treatment, which is the, the very exact opposite of silence. Two extremes of loud and speaking and silent and not speaking yet have the same, pretty much the same effect. Yeah. On the child.

Jasmine:

example of an adult, you have a friend Mike, and he's giving you silent treatment. You would just keep thinking about it. Why, what did I do? Why is this happening? Why isn't this he talking to me? And imagine a kid thinking all this, why is my mom, because we are their safety net. They are very safe with us, and the safety net is broken. Now, mom's not talking. Dad's not talking. He knows he's done something, but he's like, was it such a big mistake that no one's talking to me now? So try not to give the silent treatment as well.

Mike:

What are some common patterns that you see parents repeating from their own childhood besides the yelling or even the silent treatment?

Jasmine:

I would say, besides yelling, ary, shaming, telling their children what they're expected to do, I would say comparing, we a lot of times says, oh, look at him. He did so well and look at you. That is fourthly, I would say being tough in situations where they know don't need to be tough and they are not allowed to express their emotions. Like I give the example, it mostly happens with boys. Boys don't cry, boys don't wear pink. That's a girl color. No, it's not a girl color. It's nowhere written. It's a girl color. So what I would say is yelling, shaming. Expecting a lot from your child. A lot of times, Mike, you would see certain things that we were not able to do. We would want our children to do that. Oh, I couldn't play tennis. My child should play tennis. He doesn't like tennis, but he has to play tennis. Maybe don't do that. Ev your child is not you. He is different. He has a different personality. Again, don't keep saying be tough. Let them express their emotions. This is something which I would say was lacking in the previous generation or generations before that maybe when we were kids, maybe we were not allowed to express as much as the kids now asked to express. Because the research and everything does show that by expressing more, you would be able to raise calm and confident children as well, who would be able to face the world. The world's changed so much from what it was. I would always say that the first step is awareness. When we catch ourselves doing the old patterns, we need to pause and we need to choose something different. Not just doing what was done by our parents or their parents because things have changed. Small, consistent shifts would make a big difference. I would say over time.

Mike:

That's very important.'cause what you just said brings back. Another member. I remember with my son, I always wanted to play soccer when I was younger on a team and travel soccer. And, and, and my parents didn't allow for very real financial reasons and just working and things along those lines. And I remember my son, I wanted, you know, I wanted to vicariously lived through him and initially I had to encourage him and literally push him to soccer. And, and, and he did. He became a defender. He was pretty good at his position. But ultimately. He didn't want it, even though he became good at it. Mm-hmm. And when I said, okay, if you don't want to play soccer this year, you don't need to. And he goes, I don't want to play anymore. You know? I was like, okay, you don't have to go anymore. But at least you know. But I do. I did insist that I do still want you to be in an activity.

Jasmine:

How did you feel? Did you feel sad, disappointed

Mike:

as a dad? I took it as a light bulb went off. Reparenting, see? Yes. Yeah, I, I said even though you know soccer, you know, it's a global sport. It's healthy, it's cardiovascular team building, you know, all the check off the boxes of why team sport is, is positive. And I just said, I recognize I can't force what I like on them and on his own. He came you know, a couple of weeks ago and he goes, I want to try out for football now. On his own. And, and what I said was, okay, yeah, let's look into it. So I'm trying to encourage to do something and, and the main reason, you know, I'm sure you've heard this is the reason why I encourage sport. You know, there there's a lot of positive of sports. It's active, it's team building, it's leadership, it's accountability. But the key one, they're off their dam electronics. I don't know if I even use, you know, but they're off their electronic.'cause if they're not in school, if they're not socializing or sports. It's, you know, the dangers of the internet. Agree. It's the dangers of Roblox and all the internet traps

Jasmine:

everything. Yes. At least when they're on sports, their mind is focused on something else rather than something else. Rather than thinking about things that are not right for them. They are focused on a particular thing, which is good. It's making them healthy, making them fit, and like you said, team building. Team players. Yeah, absolutely agree with what you said.

Mike:

And that took some self-awareness on my part. Many parents, they don't have that situational awareness or they're not in tune. While I constantly read and update and I advocate for children, and advocate for parents, just sometimes many people are not.'cause they're caught up in their own struggles, their own life, paying bills. I use a saying on a good day. Whatever that good day is, right. Your hair is perfect, your bills are paid. You went to work. There's gas in the car. Your bills are paid. On a good day, life is still difficult. So many times they lack the situational awareness. They're not aware of what's going on. What can a parent do? Is there any resources where a parent could go and, and to self-improve? You know, you know, any resources you recommend. Obviously your Instagram profile, you know, has great insight and tools, but what can a parent do when they recognize, hold on, I might not be doing this right, or This doesn't feel right. Where can they go?

Jasmine:

I would say a lot of resources are available for me personally, if I feel that yes, now something is not right and that needs to be changed, the first step that I would take is maybe reach out to a certified parenting educator or a certified parenting advisor like, like I am a certified parenting educator. We have studied this field. We have studied how a child would behave in a certain manner, and we know the pros and cons. Don't feel shy that if you are reaching to a certified parenting educator or a psychologist in that way, that is something showing there's something wrong with you or your children. Not at all. If you do check the internet, there would be a lot of names there. A lot of good parenting educators, good psychologists, who should be able to guide you through as well. I'm not sure they would be there in New York as well, but we do have a lot of organizations here in Australia as well. Which do take the parents on the entire journey of what true parenting should be. We have a lot of resource here as well. Do you have it there?

Mike:

Yes, there's a lot of non-for-profit organizations, community-based organizations that give help families and children that, you know, it could be just from, you know, child to trauma, substance abuse, mental health issues. Yeah. So those programs are out there. You know, the, the takeaway that I'm hearing is there is help out there and your local community and, and of course online, and that's good to know.

Jasmine:

Yeah. And I would say don't shy away from taking health. Because that would be the first step towards reparenting as well. If you feel something is not right, please don't shy from taking help because you taking help and understanding what the issue is, is going to be helpful for your children and their, their children as well. Again, calm parents are going to raise healthy and calm children.

Mike:

Yes. That's, you know, it's almost like the laws of attraction, right? You know, the energy you put out is the energy that comes back.

Jasmine:

Yes, and I would definitely always advise this book, which is The Myth of Norman. That's by Gabo. He's someone I really admire. He talks amazing. He's from Canada though. Definitely this book for everyone to read. It's an amazing book. It gives you so much insights about how to heal toxic culture, how to get out of that. How should children be treated, how should your relationship be treated? Besides this, there would be a lot of books on parenting that you could also read. Some might be a little bit more difficult to implement, but some might be easy. So maybe if you go on the internet, you'll see a lot of books.

Mike:

Jasmine, I know our, our time is wrapping up. I just have one other question, and this is something again, as a father I deal with, and I know, put it this way, I don't know one parent that's not any suggestions or advice when a parent recognized their child may have an online gaming gig diction with these online games.

Jasmine:

I would say first of all, yes. When you do recognize that, do understand the, the reasoning as to where has that come from? Was it through friends? Was it through just that because he didn't have enough people to play or his parents were not available or what was the logic? Secondly, try to have some boundaries like saying that, fine, you are playing, but is there like, like a time that you can set for that person to play? I, I do know, and I did see a few things on internet as well, that these games I think are not even that good for children to play and they should not be even playing that. So maybe just divert or take them somewhere else. Like you said, put them in sports. Try to find something which might divert them. And addiction is only an addiction till you cannot break it. But once you find a solution to that addiction, it no longer is gonna stay in addiction. You need to show them what are the positives of not having that addiction. Sitting on your couch playing that game is not gonna be helpful in any way. You need to tell them that. Yes, getting out of your seat, playing something, physically, meeting your friends, spending time with family. That is more important than, sitting online and playing these games. Maybe tell them the side effects that these games are causing and that they are not good for you. Again, we as parents have to break the addiction. Work on them. Tell them what are the cons of having, like, playing these games and, and it's not good. I don't even mind showing them on internet. What are the reviews? And they should not be playing. Again, be a little watchful. Please try to see what they are doing and maybe divert them towards more physical activities rather than just sitting on the couch and playing that. Some parents have seen, they tell me that, oh, my kid sleeps at three o'clock in the morning. He's basically on his laptop, and then I ask them, do you know what he's watching or she's watching on the laptop? They're like, nah, I know they're all all right. We go to sleep by 10 o'clock, so we are not sure. Please don't give these answers. You need to be sure what your child is watching till 3:00 AM in the morning, or playing games, online games. You need to divert them from that. Explain to them how a healthy lifestyle needs to be led. Again, by providing an example you doing and they're going to replicate you. They'll see you on the, your phones. They would go to their phones and start doing that exact same thing.

Mike:

They'll mirror their parents. Agree. Jasmine, on behalf of the audience and who's listening, I do want to say thank you so much for a lot of insightful and practical advice. If somebody wants to reach out to you or has any follow up questions now what is the best way somebody can find you and speak to you and reach out to you?

Jasmine:

I do have my Instagram profile. You can find me on Facebook as well, so it is Colors of Parenting. Do Jasmine. When you do visit my profile, there is a link in the bio, which is my link three, which would give you all the options that are there. You do have option for a free 30 minute session as well. It's, it's free, of course. Just any questions that you have, there is a Google form as well that you need to complete. Send it to me. I'll book in some time and then we can go through your problems or any issues or any concerns or even if you wanna talk your heart out. I'm there, so you should be able to find me on Colors of Parenting dot Jasmine on Insta. Thank you.

Mike:

Thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate your knowledge and insight and for those listening you just heard, if you have any questions, you could reach out to Jasmine colors of insta jasmine on Instagram, and there's a link tree where you could get a free consultation. Jasmine, I want to say thank you so much for your time and sharing your experience and insight to our listeners. Thank you again.

Jasmine:

Thank you so much, Mike. Thank you.

Mike:

You are welcome. So, there you have it folks. It's a wrap. We want to thank Jasmine for being on our show and sharing all her useful advice and parents. As a reminder, having anxiety or being stressed in today's society is normal, but we always have to focus on the re-parenting and making sure we're not doing to our children what was happening to us. We need to break that cycle. Number two, which is important. Yelling does not work. Flip side, neither does the silent treatment as Jasmine told us they are. Even though exact opposites, they have the same effect. We can't shame our children, compare our children, and we also have to be aware of the online gaming addiction. So if you want to follow more, follow Jasmine at the colors of parenting. Jasmine, thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you next week. Thanks for listening. This is Mike Catter, and I'll help you and your family navigate custody disputes or divorce matters with your best interest first. You can book a free consultation with me and learn more by following me on Instagram at Mike j Cater. I've also included a link in today's show notes. Tune in for our next episode of the brief coming next week.